Official Social Network of The Theosophical Society in America
Descartes, Spinoza and the Birth of Modern Ego - Chris Richardson
Descartes, Spinoza and the Birth of Modern Ego - Chris Richardson
Explaining how the individual relates to the whole is one of the key questions in philosophy and Theosophy. One way to approach this subject is by looking at an individual philosopher’s view of the mind-body connection. Looking at this difference between philosophers and their viewpoints can spark explorations into relationships between matter and spirit, as well as man and God (Mystery) and man and society (Ethics).
The group moderator should encourage individuals to read “Handout B: Philosophical Summaries of Descartes and Spinoza” before the class begins. The other handout can be made available but, except for the comic first page, the key aspects of it are reproduced in the material below. Participants should be reminded that they are not expected to master the essences of each philosopher but simply to read through and sample their basic philosophical approaches.
Download handouts:
Handout B
Comic
The class will enter the exploration of their respective ideas with the mind-body focus highlighted in the discussion questions below.
Biographical information seems less important that the substance of their philosophies, though excellent brief biographies can be found for each by clicking on their respective names: Descartes and Spinoza.
Discussion questions
1- Concerning the mind-body “problem,” Descartes claims that the crux of the problem is that mind and body are completely different:
Is this statement in agreement with the basic teachings of Theosophy—that the mind is completely immaterial and the body is completely material?
2-Criticism of Descartes’ model of absolute distinction between mind and body generally concentrates on the fact that there is no way these two entirely different substances could interact. Do you agree with the critics of Descartes that his notion of complete distinction between mind and body is a flawed idea? If so, why?
3-In a letter, Descartes mentions, somewhat obscurely, that besides the distinction between body and soul there is simulteanously the notion of “the union of the soul with the body”:
Compare and contrast Descartes’ “solution” to the mind-body problem to the Theosophical notion of Fohat.
4-Compare and contrast Spinoza’s thesis “that for each finite mode of extension there exists a finite mode of thought that corresponds to it and from which it is not really distinct” and The Theosophical concept of Thought Form.
5- It is important to remember that Spinoza is not implying that all human bodies and minds are derived from the same forming idea:
Can you see an essential difference between Spinoza and Descartes concerning the relationship between mind and body? How would you express it in your own words?
6- With the Conatus Principle Spinoza gave his own brief explanation of the life principle:
The conception of moving toward an underlying essence is also present in Therapeutic Touch (TT).
TT posits that illness results from a body’s energy field losing its natural rhythm and that healing involves encouraging a return to that natural rhythm.
Can you see any similarities between the concept of health in TT and Spinoza’s
Conatus Principle?
7- Spinoza uses his Conatus Principle later when he makes arguments concerning ethics. Can you, in your own words, articulate how there might be a connection between the TT notion of creating health via encouraging an individual body’s energy fields to operate at their most natural rhythms, and Spinoza encouraging a social system in which he might motivate all individuals to act in accordance with their most natural rhythms, rhythms which, because they would be in touch with unity and connection, would necessarily act in harmony?
8- Joseph Campbell’s "Follow Your Bliss” life prescription might be considered selfish by some. Discuss in your group how it might be an essentially ethical correct action and in the best interest of community to Follow Your Bliss according to the interpretation of Spinoza’s Conatus Principle as discussed in question #7? (i.e. “Follow your Bliss” in this context would be similar to returning to your most essential idea (Spinoza), and/or your most essential vibration as according to TT).
Proposed activities
Resources:
Books
Aczel, Amir D., Descartes' Secret Notebook : A True Tale of Mathematics, Mysticism, and the Quest to Understand the Universe, 510.1 ACZ DSN
Grayling, A. C., Descartes: The Life and Times of a Genius, B D453 GRA D
Hampshire, Stuart, Spinoza, 199.492 HAM S
Levin, Dan, Spinoza, The Young Thinker Who Destroyed the Past, 199.492 LEV S
Spinoza, Benedictus de, The Book of God, 199.492 SPI BG
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Earlier Philosophical Writings: The Cartesian Principles and Thoughts on Metaphysics,199.492 SPI EPW
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Ethic: Demonstrated in Geometrical Order and Divided into Five Parts, which Treat (1) of God; (2) of the Nature and Origin of the Mind; (3) of the Nature & Origin of the Affects; (4) of Human Bondage, or of the Strength of the Affects; (5) of the Power of the Intellect, or of Human Liberty,199.492 SPI E
Spinoza, Benedictus de, The Philosophy of Spinoza, Selected from His Chief Works, with a Life of Spinoza and an Introduction,199.492 SPI PS
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Spinoza's Ethics and "De Intellectus Emendatione," 199.492 SPI EIE
Sound recordings
(AR: audiocassette; CDA: Compact Disc)
- Capra, Fritjof, A Holistic View of Mind and Matter, CDA 0301-2
- Weber, Renée, Spinoza: The Forgotten Theosophist, CDA 0347
Explaining how the individual relates to the whole is one of the key questions in philosophy and Theosophy. One way to approach this subject is by looking at an individual philosopher’s view of the mind-body connection. Looking at this difference between philosophers and their viewpoints can spark explorations into relationships between matter and spirit, as well as man and God (Mystery) and man and society (Ethics).
The group moderator should encourage individuals to read “Handout B: Philosophical Summaries of Descartes and Spinoza” before the class begins. The other handout can be made available but, except for the comic first page, the key aspects of it are reproduced in the material below. Participants should be reminded that they are not expected to master the essences of each philosopher but simply to read through and sample their basic philosophical approaches.
Download handouts:
Handout B
Comic
The class will enter the exploration of their respective ideas with the mind-body focus highlighted in the discussion questions below.
Biographical information seems less important that the substance of their philosophies, though excellent brief biographies can be found for each by clicking on their respective names: Descartes and Spinoza.
Discussion questions
1- Concerning the mind-body “problem,” Descartes claims that the crux of the problem is that mind and body are completely different:
Is this statement in agreement with the basic teachings of Theosophy—that the mind is completely immaterial and the body is completely material?
2-Criticism of Descartes’ model of absolute distinction between mind and body generally concentrates on the fact that there is no way these two entirely different substances could interact. Do you agree with the critics of Descartes that his notion of complete distinction between mind and body is a flawed idea? If so, why?
3-In a letter, Descartes mentions, somewhat obscurely, that besides the distinction between body and soul there is simulteanously the notion of “the union of the soul with the body”:
Compare and contrast Descartes’ “solution” to the mind-body problem to the Theosophical notion of Fohat.
4-Compare and contrast Spinoza’s thesis “that for each finite mode of extension there exists a finite mode of thought that corresponds to it and from which it is not really distinct” and The Theosophical concept of Thought Form.
5- It is important to remember that Spinoza is not implying that all human bodies and minds are derived from the same forming idea:
Can you see an essential difference between Spinoza and Descartes concerning the relationship between mind and body? How would you express it in your own words?
6- With the Conatus Principle Spinoza gave his own brief explanation of the life principle:
The conception of moving toward an underlying essence is also present in Therapeutic Touch (TT).
TT posits that illness results from a body’s energy field losing its natural rhythm and that healing involves encouraging a return to that natural rhythm.
Can you see any similarities between the concept of health in TT and Spinoza’s
Conatus Principle?
7- Spinoza uses his Conatus Principle later when he makes arguments concerning ethics. Can you, in your own words, articulate how there might be a connection between the TT notion of creating health via encouraging an individual body’s energy fields to operate at their most natural rhythms, and Spinoza encouraging a social system in which he might motivate all individuals to act in accordance with their most natural rhythms, rhythms which, because they would be in touch with unity and connection, would necessarily act in harmony?
8- Joseph Campbell’s "Follow Your Bliss” life prescription might be considered selfish by some. Discuss in your group how it might be an essentially ethical correct action and in the best interest of community to Follow Your Bliss according to the interpretation of Spinoza’s Conatus Principle as discussed in question #7? (i.e. “Follow your Bliss” in this context would be similar to returning to your most essential idea (Spinoza), and/or your most essential vibration as according to TT).
Proposed activities
Resources:
Books
Aczel, Amir D., Descartes' Secret Notebook : A True Tale of Mathematics, Mysticism, and the Quest to Understand the Universe, 510.1 ACZ DSN
Grayling, A. C., Descartes: The Life and Times of a Genius, B D453 GRA D
Hampshire, Stuart, Spinoza, 199.492 HAM S
Levin, Dan, Spinoza, The Young Thinker Who Destroyed the Past, 199.492 LEV S
Spinoza, Benedictus de, The Book of God, 199.492 SPI BG
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Earlier Philosophical Writings: The Cartesian Principles and Thoughts on Metaphysics,199.492 SPI EPW
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Ethic: Demonstrated in Geometrical Order and Divided into Five Parts, which Treat (1) of God; (2) of the Nature and Origin of the Mind; (3) of the Nature & Origin of the Affects; (4) of Human Bondage, or of the Strength of the Affects; (5) of the Power of the Intellect, or of Human Liberty,199.492 SPI E
Spinoza, Benedictus de, The Philosophy of Spinoza, Selected from His Chief Works, with a Life of Spinoza and an Introduction,199.492 SPI PS
Spinoza, Benedictus de, Spinoza's Ethics and "De Intellectus Emendatione," 199.492 SPI EIE
Sound recordings
(AR: audiocassette; CDA: Compact Disc)
- Capra, Fritjof, A Holistic View of Mind and Matter, CDA 0301-2
- Weber, Renée, Spinoza: The Forgotten Theosophist, CDA 0347
Read our Guide to Community Features to learn your way around!
Also, check out our Guidelines for Community Conduct to review our rules.
Have a question or issue to report? Send a message to the moderators and let them know.
Do you enjoy using this site and other online resources provided by the Theosophical Society in America? Would you like to contribute to these efforts? Click below to make a monetary donation. Your support is appreciated and will help us to add to the resources we offer online.
Events
© 2009 Created by The Theosophical Society
