YUGA'S AND 2012

[Jack Donaldson]

My Teacher only recently mentioned her opinion upon the external measure of time, such as calendars, yugas, and 2012. In my meager ability to fathom everything she says, I come up with the following.

The inner growth of the student may not correlate to external passage of time, but I cannot adequately illustrate the meaning to the statement. Becoming adept at acting in accordance to the higher mind was mentioned. Most of the New Age rendering of prophetic rhetoric using the Archaic Wisdom only when it suited agenda, which possessed a degree of materialism, to the extent toward hindering inner growth, makes many insights toward potential future events, not worthy of lengthy study.

I also suspect anyone in America who were in their late teens, or early twenties during the 1960's. This last is me simply being a pain. Not really going anywhere with it.

[Scott Sands]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Jack Donaldson]

I suppose it would be toward expanding upon external measure of time in relation to the internal measure of a man. I invision higher mind to be that which is the Reincarnating Ego, and is upon the same Sutratman as mind of matter, or lower mind, but is much older and much more highly evolved.

I have a tendency toward acquiring answers by tossing something and seeing what comes back. Sorry for not fitting the precise protocol of "Theosophical Question and Answer" part of this forum.

[Konstantin Zaitzev]

I would add that there's no any connection with yugas, as they counted in puranic and theosophical literature, and 2012.

[Mark Newbold]

I find it hard to fathom that a Pre-Columbian Meso-American calendar can a) have global implications & b) create a cottage industry of the most mind numbing speculation.

My theory of time (doesn't everyone have one?) is of potential. The past is spent potential, the present available potential & the future untapped potential. It's the only concept of time that makes sense to me.

[Jack Donaldson]

Reply by Mark Newbold on August 31, 2009 at 5:00pm
I find it hard to fathom that a Pre-Columbian Meso-American calendar can a) have global implications & b) create a cottage industry of the most mind numbing speculation.

My theory of time (doesn't everyone have one?) is of potential. The past is spent potential, the present available potential & the future untapped potential. It's the only concept of time that makes sense to me.>>

It's too late, it will always be too late, and it always has been too late. - Dr. Manhatten. :) In Isis Unveiled, it seems, '...a Pre-Columbian Meso-American Calendar' is based upon understandings of Mayan's who shared many religious terms etymologically with people of Canaan, who fled before Joshua, son of Nun. I am trying to find the volume and page where I saw it in Isis Unveiled. She gave Max Muller: Popul-Vuh, p.327. Brasseur de Bourboug: "Cartas," p.52. Max Muller: Chips from a German Workshop," vol ii, P.269 as references.

The past being spent potential indicates we can't use the past, in the present, to guide ourselves toward the future.

[Scott Sands]

I was not chastising your question, only wanting a better understanding of it in order to respond. It is a deep query and I wanted to make sure I was on track with it. I'm still not sure I am 100%, but that is more my lack than you presentation.

It is said in the higher realms that time is nonexistent. I have trouble enough understanding that, because if one thing follows another, to me it would seem to have time. Without which I am blown away. If the absence of time is more a matter of being able to move forward and backward in it, I would have a better grasp, but I don't know that that's what is meant.

There seems to be at times that the higher self is not wholey with us all the time and only periodically 'checks in' when needed during critical times and descisions. I don't believe that either so much, it may just be that we feel it's influence more during those situations.

I would whole heartily agree that the higher mind is much older than the lower, for it is eternal on a personal level and the lower mind is a temporary vehicle. I wrote in another thread what I concider the difference to be between Intelligence and Wisdom. I don't like to repeat things too much, but it seems to apply here.

"Intelligence is facts we collect in life. Statistics, facts, concrete knowledge... which gets left with our shades as we die. It is only useful in the life we gain it.
Wisdom is the collection of "ah-ha's",... it's the 'click'. It's when you understand something from the big picture. You understand how something fits into the grander scheme. You may not have all the 'facts' on a subject.. but with this grander view... you are more readily able to grasp the lower facts. This is something that is retained on the soul-level. This builds on the soul and stays with us life after life. This is the reason some are born with a predisposition to certain subjects or skills. This is how a Beethoven can pick up an excel with music at a young age, or how certain concepts can come to some easier than others. We may not have all the facts, but the over-all concept of a subject is already understood."

As far as this connection with prophesies and 2012, I don't really get. Again, my bad for not understanding. I don't believe in such a thing as the end of the world. Not as an event. Not that it won't happen in some way, I just don't see it as a destiny or judgment. Life will endure, whether it does so in the present form is another matter. And calendars in general mean nothing to me because they are man made and man set. The Mayan calendar is deifferent however. TheMayans had, wat seemed to be, an almost unearthly understanding of the heavenly bodies, quite beyond their time. To me this is significant. The Mayan prophesies are however blown out of proportion. They do not predict the end of the world or some catclysm. They only set the end of one cycle and the beginning of another. With their grand knowledge what does this mean though? I don't, but we'll see. I would guess it will be just another day, but it could mean more.

[Jack Donaldson]

This topic is filled with the 'potential' for my 'intelligence' to make a big mess of it. In "Isis Unveiled" HPB suggested the pyramids and an etymological similarity existed between South American people such as the Mayans, and people around the Mediterranean, due to people fleeing from Joshua, Son of Nun. The crossing between Western Africa and South America is not so distant as say, to North America, and she hinted that Islands existed in number, making it easier.

The Fourth Root-Race was in a Kali Yug when Atlantis met catastrophy, while the Fifth was in a Satya or Krita Yuga. The latter is 1.728 million years. The Fifth Root-Race must be conceived of as being dense physical bodies, and I can only imagine the length of time within a Satya Yuga as being optimal toward evolving a manner of existence ultimately reaching a state or condition I would only make attempts toward imagining. We are in a Kali Yug currently, and I don't think we are at the ending of it.

Theosophy study makes sense when one ponders upon making inroads toward Higher Mind, irregardless of the time in which he lives. The Sixth Root-Race will be entering their Golden Age (Satya Yuga), while we reap the fruit of our iniquity. The inner region or I might say expanding consciousness being the focus, is how external measure of time varies per individual. Efforts with some measure of success to a more or less degree, mark the individuals passage of time.

I worked eleven hours today, so I hope I was understandable.

[Konstantin Zaitzev]

> It is said in the higher realms that time is nonexistent. I have trouble enough understanding that, because if one thing follows another, to me it would seem to have time.

You are quite right, so this theory is false, at least for those planes on which karma can act, for karma implies cause and effect.
The mystics who could reach the astral plane but had no slightest idea of science and even logic, noticed that during several munutes of physical plane time they had an experience of many hours on other plane and made this false conclusion, while we should speak only about stretching the time or different time scales on diferent planes but not about the absence of time.

[Jack Donaldson]

My original post was a bit hazy, unclear. I followed it with an attempt to present a clear question. The passage of time being observed by humanity as a whole, would place time in a category. You see? I've now introduced perception of the passage of time, as fallacy. I'm basing this upon critical review of Aristotelian logic, within which, the term 'category' is utilized.

Category use is an attempt to lower a zenith and raise a nadir. An example, in the case of the former, is illustration given, of removing much of the upper part of a mountain in order to create a large flat area to construct buildings upon. Darn! I want to continue, but I have to run for now.

[Arthur E Gregory]

Scott wrote:

"They do not predict the end of the world or some catclysm. They only set the end of one cycle and the beginning of another."

I agree with your statement ... Also the Maya believed in cycles similar to Buddhist and Hindu reckoning so in their view the cycle ending means it will return to the beginning of their history. There's an interesting article on wikipedia on this at

The present-day Maya, as a whole, do not attach much significance to 2012. Although the calendar round is still used by some Maya tribes in the Guatemalan highlands, the Long Count was strictly employed by the classic Maya, and was only recently rediscovered by archaeologists.[16] Mayan elder Apolinario Chile Pixtun and Mexican archaeologist Guillermo Bernal both note that "apocalypse" is a Western concept that has little or nothing to do with Mayan beliefs.

Bernal believes that such ideas have been foisted on the Maya by Westerners because their own myths are "exhausted".[17][18] Mayan archaeologist Jose Huchm complains that, "If I went to some Mayan-speaking communities and asked people what is going to happen in 2012, they wouldn't have any idea. That the world is going to end? They wouldn't believe you. We have real concerns these days, like rain."[17]

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon

The 2012 prophecy though is selling big time in media of various kinds.. It's another doom's day prophecy we've seen before.

[Jack Donaldson]

Hi Arthur, I think we have a very near agreement on this 2012 glamour. I devoted some time to Ian Xel Lundgold video's showing the Mayan Calendar Stages, using the Pyramid as the flow-chart type of explanation toward life's events. It was interesting. But I didn't see enough reason to leave Theosophy for great length while engaging it.

My words in a previous post on this thread haunt me a little. I remember reading that previous Root-Races are still alive and well within us. I still don't understand it very much. see below;

Theosophy study makes sense when one ponders upon making inroads toward Higher Mind, irregardless of the time in which he lives. The Sixth Root-Race will be entering their Golden Age (Satya Yuga), while we reap the fruit of our iniquity. The inner region or I might say expanding consciousness being the focus, is how external measure of time varies per individual. Efforts with some measure of success to a more or less degree, mark the individuals passage of time.


I would wonder that the Sixth Root-Race arrival, and the part about our suffering from our iniquities, simply indicates the position that much of the energies harbored within us, currently, will not be a relative component of the Sixth Root-Race. What might become of those among humanity right now, who will not release these energies they consistently harbor at great length? When I speak of energies harbored within us, I'm usually meaning thoughts, images, and the low or negative qualities many inspire.

[Arthur E Gregory]

While doing some searching I found some interesting You tubes of an interview that occurred before 1987 the man Tony Shearer being interviewed had written a book called Lord of the Dawn about the Tree of Life and Quetzalcoatl...

Anyway, people were looking forward to the Harmonic Convergence in 1987 just as people look today at the 2012 prophecy.. both prophecies are sort of based on the Mayan calendar.. Anyway here's his presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YhsQCa1q1U

Note that he talks about the "five worlds" which it seems to me could be parallel to various "root races"..

The second talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T02lHPkmS1k&NR=1

Has elements I think you'll find of Gnostic symbols of the Sophia and the Isis-Osiris legend.. In this sense I think you'll see that some of the Indian legends compliment Theosophical concepts.