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The Spirit of this Theosophical Community
I think when we engage in an activity we should have in mind the purpose of it, so I want to share some thoughts about our Theosophical Community.
An online theosophical activity can have different aims. It can be a place to establish social contacts and foster a sense of community. It can be a space to introduce people to Theosophical literature, or to deepen the understanding of Theosophy. It can also be an arena to discuss controversial historical issues, or to examine the working of the Theosophical Society (TS), or to denounce things we think are not being done right, etc. Each activity will tend to attract and engage certain kinds of people and discourage others.
Personally speaking, I think our online community should be focused on the introduction to Theosophical teachings and deepening our understanding, leaving aside the discussion of controversial issues--current or historical--about the TS or theosophical leaders. Let me explain the reasons for this proposal.
The Theosophical Community is a visible, public face of the TS. If we aspire to engage new members and people interested in knowing what Theosophy is, giving predominance to controversial issues is surely not the way to show what Theosophy is.
If new people or members, with no experience in the TS, come to our community and see that controversial issues, denouncements, ill will, etc., occupy a considerable space in our discussions, what will they think about the TS? Let’s suppose you are interested in a philosophy you know nothing about, let us say, Buddhism. You encounter an online “Buddhist Community” and all you see is fellow Buddhists cutting each other’s throat in the name of their love for Buddhism and the sanga; what would you do? Would you be willing to join that sanga? Would you believe their “words of wisdom”?
Am I proposing to show a fake image to the public? Not at all! On the contrary, we are now showing a false image. In our daily theosophical life (the real one, not the online life) controversial issues are usually not a prominent part of our theosophical activity. We spend our time in the study of Theosophy and the attempt to practice it. The fact that our institution is right now going through a stormy time may cover up this reality, but this also shall pass and we will come back to a renewed time of unity, as has happened so many times in the past.
Besides, from an esoteric point of view, I’m sure these discussions become a source of dreadful elementals. We know that everything we think or feel produces a kind of artificial elemental. As one of the Mahatmas wrote to Mr. Hume in his first letter:
“We see a vast difference between the qualities of two equal amounts of energy expended by two men, of whom one, let us suppose, is on his way to his daily quiet work, and another on his way to denounce a fellow creature at the police station, while the men of science see none (...) And why? Because every thought of man upon being evolved passes into the inner world and becomes an active entity by associating itself—coalescing, we might term it—with an elemental; that is to say with one of the semi-intelligent forces of the kingdoms. It survives as an active intelligence, a creature of the mind's begetting, for a longer or shorter period proportionate with the original intensity of the cerebral action which generated it. Thus, a good thought is perpetuated as an active beneficent power; an evil one as a maleficent demon. And so man is continually peopling his current in space with a world of his own, crowded with the offsprings of his fancies, desires, impulses, and passions, a current which reacts upon any sensitive or and nervous organisation which comes in contact with it in proportion to its dynamic intensity. The Buddhist calls this his "Skandha," the Hindu gives it the name of "Karma"; the Adept evolves these shapes consciously, other men throw them off unconsciously.”
When we are discussing controversial issues, or people read those discussions, what are we thinking about? What do we feel? Do we feel love, compassion, inspiration, unity, etc.? What kind of feelings and thoughts are we replicating?
Usually, the online discussion of controversial issues becomes an arena to gossip, lie, and state half-truths, thus fostering conflict, ill-feelings, separateness, and finally deepening differences and keeping them alive. And worst of all, this is not even useful, because this kind of issue cannot be solved through an online discussion.
So, since there are already other online forums where people can discuss all these controversial issues, like the theos-talk, I propose we should redirect the activity of this community and exclude controversial and institutional issues. If people are interested they can join the already existent forums. I don’t think it is necessary to replicate that activity here. Or, as a less drastic alternative, we could start another online community specifically focused on institutional/historic issues (as Chris Richardson did with his blog) for those who feel necessary to have that space.
What do you all think?
An online theosophical activity can have different aims. It can be a place to establish social contacts and foster a sense of community. It can be a space to introduce people to Theosophical literature, or to deepen the understanding of Theosophy. It can also be an arena to discuss controversial historical issues, or to examine the working of the Theosophical Society (TS), or to denounce things we think are not being done right, etc. Each activity will tend to attract and engage certain kinds of people and discourage others.
Personally speaking, I think our online community should be focused on the introduction to Theosophical teachings and deepening our understanding, leaving aside the discussion of controversial issues--current or historical--about the TS or theosophical leaders. Let me explain the reasons for this proposal.
The Theosophical Community is a visible, public face of the TS. If we aspire to engage new members and people interested in knowing what Theosophy is, giving predominance to controversial issues is surely not the way to show what Theosophy is.
If new people or members, with no experience in the TS, come to our community and see that controversial issues, denouncements, ill will, etc., occupy a considerable space in our discussions, what will they think about the TS? Let’s suppose you are interested in a philosophy you know nothing about, let us say, Buddhism. You encounter an online “Buddhist Community” and all you see is fellow Buddhists cutting each other’s throat in the name of their love for Buddhism and the sanga; what would you do? Would you be willing to join that sanga? Would you believe their “words of wisdom”?
Am I proposing to show a fake image to the public? Not at all! On the contrary, we are now showing a false image. In our daily theosophical life (the real one, not the online life) controversial issues are usually not a prominent part of our theosophical activity. We spend our time in the study of Theosophy and the attempt to practice it. The fact that our institution is right now going through a stormy time may cover up this reality, but this also shall pass and we will come back to a renewed time of unity, as has happened so many times in the past.
Besides, from an esoteric point of view, I’m sure these discussions become a source of dreadful elementals. We know that everything we think or feel produces a kind of artificial elemental. As one of the Mahatmas wrote to Mr. Hume in his first letter:
“We see a vast difference between the qualities of two equal amounts of energy expended by two men, of whom one, let us suppose, is on his way to his daily quiet work, and another on his way to denounce a fellow creature at the police station, while the men of science see none (...) And why? Because every thought of man upon being evolved passes into the inner world and becomes an active entity by associating itself—coalescing, we might term it—with an elemental; that is to say with one of the semi-intelligent forces of the kingdoms. It survives as an active intelligence, a creature of the mind's begetting, for a longer or shorter period proportionate with the original intensity of the cerebral action which generated it. Thus, a good thought is perpetuated as an active beneficent power; an evil one as a maleficent demon. And so man is continually peopling his current in space with a world of his own, crowded with the offsprings of his fancies, desires, impulses, and passions, a current which reacts upon any sensitive or and nervous organisation which comes in contact with it in proportion to its dynamic intensity. The Buddhist calls this his "Skandha," the Hindu gives it the name of "Karma"; the Adept evolves these shapes consciously, other men throw them off unconsciously.”
When we are discussing controversial issues, or people read those discussions, what are we thinking about? What do we feel? Do we feel love, compassion, inspiration, unity, etc.? What kind of feelings and thoughts are we replicating?
Usually, the online discussion of controversial issues becomes an arena to gossip, lie, and state half-truths, thus fostering conflict, ill-feelings, separateness, and finally deepening differences and keeping them alive. And worst of all, this is not even useful, because this kind of issue cannot be solved through an online discussion.
So, since there are already other online forums where people can discuss all these controversial issues, like the theos-talk, I propose we should redirect the activity of this community and exclude controversial and institutional issues. If people are interested they can join the already existent forums. I don’t think it is necessary to replicate that activity here. Or, as a less drastic alternative, we could start another online community specifically focused on institutional/historic issues (as Chris Richardson did with his blog) for those who feel necessary to have that space.
What do you all think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Svaha on -
What an opportunity to shine in the face of adversity! Drawing out the higher aims of the community, one must always serve to encourage... Indeed, it is a noble cause to inspire others toward the higher aims. As a few have so elegantly conveyed in an ongoing discussion I believe inspired your proposal, those of a more refined nature (whom have done a considerable amount of inner work) could very well add balance to any dialogue of a controversial nature. Still, others with a great understanding of theosophical subject matter will abstain entirely from that which seems deplorable to their sense of worthwhile conversation. It is quite possible that such threads are fertile grounds for planting useful seeds. It is up to us what we choose to sow. How we decide to utilize our time in the public forum will be different for each. Is it in our best interest to decide what threads should be in the public or private eye? Does this resolve the condition presenting itself? It is our human nature in its varying degrees of evolutionary progress in the here and now showing ourself before our very eyes within this online community. Might it serve as a great mirror, so that we may consider our reflection. ::::
How might we truly be of service to our community? We can initiate threads that draw others toward a primary focus~ that of the study of Theosophy, for this is for the most part what brought us here. And certainly there will be much of this to take root, to grow and to blossom. As you have so succinctly put, there is a gravity to each forum topic which will naturally attract or repel various personalities within the community. I see this as akin to the warm up before the maestro appears. There is resonance and dissonance here, and we all have a part to play. We are all tuning up so to speak...
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Permalink Reply by William Vollrath on -
Svaha, you provide much wisdom in these comments...
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Permalink Reply by Dr.Himabind on -
I agree with your writing.
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Permalink Reply by Janeth on -
>"How might we truly be of service to our community? We can initiate threads that draw others toward a primary focus~ that of the study of Theosophy, for this is for the most part what brought us here."<---AMEN to this Svaha!!☺ Thanks!!☺
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Permalink Reply by Kerry James Goodhew on -
I agree and disagree with this propsosal, to exlude controversial and instituitional issues.
I agree that a forum should look to put its best face forward.
I disagree since the issues are there for opportunities of personal growth. Also, I simply do not want to have to jump around more and more websites to find where "reality" is. One site is enough. And so are the links to topics dropping into my inbox from one site is enough!!!.
Why are people active in this discussion, to which I presume includes managers of this forum, seeing the matter as so difficult?
Simply start a thread or blog headed "New to Theosophy: Go here!"
By the way this forum operates you would only have to add something to it once per day for it to remain near top of the list of discussions.
I have just been reading "Madame Blavatsky" by John Symonds (1959). One or two paragraphs from this per day would blow the mind of any new comer to theosophy and probably get them hooked (carefully chosen since there is much controversy in theosophy from the beginning!). That's just one idea. There are a myriad of information ideas that could be posted up to attract newcomers (and old-comers!).
I am not in disagreement that there should be a separate section for Members where the controversial is aired. Recently we had a public forum here in Dunedin about the "state" of theosophy (where people physically in person got together to discuss things!). I put a requirement that due to the nature of some issues to be raised that the forum should only be open to paid-up members. This got strong objection from one person, but it got another person so interested in the subject that she came down from another town for the debate and joined our branch society!
ie. make the right to discuss issues a priveledge of membership and a good basic knowledege of what theosophy is "ideally" about before exposing people to serious issues !
For example there was a proposal to change the wording of the founding "objects" of theosophy. Why should a non-member be privy to a discussion on changing something so fundamental and important?
Anyway, that's my two-pence worth!
;-)
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Permalink Reply by William Vollrath on
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It seems to me that discussions on this site should have illustrated that a policy of assuming special knowledge or wisdom for select individuals is a slippery slope and is best avoided...
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Permalink Reply by Kerry James Goodhew on
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Ok, let me put it this way...
Issues in and of the family (brotherhood) should stay in the family. There is great danger and possible serious consequences to airing one's family's issues to the whole street. Especially when today most people do not even know their neighbours and have little to do with them! Frankly a ludicrous thing to do!
If theosophy is a relevant, thriving and growing society then there should always be plenty of fresh new members, who have just read about the ideals, agree with them, have engaged in branch activities, and then join up who will be new enough to add that fresh perspective. If theosophy is not relevant but is dieing then it will not have that continuous fresh perspective.
The ideal is all very well to have an entirely open transparent society, entirely open forum, however, that fantasy reality of a benign value is not the way the world is and does not operate as such!, the reality is for anybody who knows even a little of the history of theosophy that it has suffered from the beginning with conflict from within, from betrayals of members (family) taking issues to the "outside world", and also GREATLY from outside of theosophy by enemies having attacked it.
One cannot stop one who becomes an enemy from within the family, a betrayer, however, a society can certainly reduce or eliminate the other type of self generated destruction through negative information given freely in an open broadcast on a forum, IMHO the most foolish of actions a society can engage in. People need to get real, Theosophy does need to engage in measures to protect itself, just as in the wide world an individual needs to psychically do so, by drawing a protective bubble of light around his/her self!
There are ideals, and then there is naievity, and then there is taking responsibility for consequences. If you hang out all your dirty washing for the whole world to see then of course ANYBODY is going to see it and of course new people will not understand why you have dirty washing at all, and not be tolerant of it, scaring them off, or, the world will make offensive comments about your dirty washing and judge you harshly with some a view to denigrate you out of existence.
The ideals we want the world to see should be the ideals we want them to see (that is, requires careful thought and discipline, not careless disseminations and indisciplne!) ....not 'anything goes' as a representation of theosophy!
Family issues should be kept in-house! = common sense!
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Permalink Reply by Janeth on
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>"Airing one's dirty laundry for all to see.."<---and most probably feed FOE (Forces of Evil - once again, I learned this acronym from a friend), I do knot think so!!
There is a very important reason there are all kind of professional help, and in today's world more than ever before, available to human beings interested and courageous enough to look for it. This help is some times provided at not cost to residents and citizens who want to receive help. In the great country, the USA, one can dial either 211 or 311, anywhere in the country, and find such help. I sincerely hope excellent services like these are provided in other coutnries as well.
This is a perfect sample of why long time TS group leaders are so reluctant to release the administration of their group to young Theosophists. One thing is reading tons of Theosophical and other type of books, another thing is capturing the teachings and practicing them.
In my line of work I often encounter illiterates with a lot more common sense, humility and compassion/divine love than what I find in a lot of so-called educated or self-educated individuals who a lot of times have allowed entrance into their beings to one of the many faces the secret enemy uses to manifest itself, arrogance. Is it to think that one’s way of thinking is better than those who have more empirical knowledge and wisdom, the wises thing to do? I think not.
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Permalink Reply by Kerry James Goodhew on
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Dan, The significant difference of types of external input or intervention is whether a family (or individual) gets to the point of ASKING for help, if they realise they cannot work out things for themselves, rather than the scenario of people casting stones of judgement that is usually unqualified and adds fuel to the inferno of damage.
Here in NZ we have a bitter dispute over intended sale of land and buildings resulting in the potential loss of a dream of use for this property held for 50 years. This is all in-house (in-family) theosophy business. If it was put on a NZ based forum like this US-forum, it is difficult to see that it is of any business of non-members (non-family). There is a call by councillors to bring in a professional mediator. This is "business" of theosophy, in my view rightfully a "closed shop", it is quite removed and almost NOTHING TO DO with the values, principles, teachings, benefits and promotion of theosophy that is of course, and should be, "open shop" accessable FOR ALL TO SEE.
We're talking two VERY DIFFERENT things here!.
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Permalink Reply by Kerry James Goodhew on
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Yes, i agree, leave it there since I was fairly much tracking in theme with Pablo's intro which included ...
Usually, the online discussion of controversial issues becomes an arena to gossip, lie, and state half-truths, thus fostering conflict, ill-feelings, separateness, and finally deepening differences and keeping them alive. And worst of all, this is not even useful, because this kind of issue cannot be solved through an online discussion.
I didn't see anything about ES vs TS!
However, wouldn't ES by its name be somewhat closed since if it is not then it should change its name to ExotericS !
Anyway, i don't really know anything about ES or differences it might have with other S's., except that the Sinnets were cynical about it when Blavatsky formed ES !
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Permalink Reply by William Vollrath on
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I stand by my comments and against a forum site that prematurely disallows open discussion of issues needing the light of day...
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Permalink Reply by Janeth on
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>"Issues in and of the family (brotherhood) should stay in the family. There is great danger and possible serious consequences to airing one's family's issues to the whole street. Especially when today most people do not even know their neighbours and have little to do with them! Frankly a ludicrous thing to do!<---AMEN to this, Kerry!!☺
Thank you so, so very much!!☺ You do have very clear the basics of Theosophy!!☺ I think of the Theosophical Society as a universal BROTHERHOOD, and as one wouldn't want to ventilate in front of the whole world challenges we might have in our own private family, we would not want to do the same with our beloved family the Theosophical Society...I believe, apart from being part of basics of Theosophy it is a matter of one's personal high standards and ethics, integrity and compassion/divine love toward the shortcomings of our fellow human beings.
One never knows what possible challenges others might be facing at a particular time and date. There is no human being in the world that is not facing one type or another kind of mental, or emotional, or physical, or spiritual challenge...Those of us who are sincerely trying to practice Theosophy, try our best to keep the basics of Theosophy in mind every single day. Do we always succeed in everything? Probably no, but the important thing is to keep tying to do our best for Theosophy and its vehicle the Theosophical Society, its members and the world!!☺
I say again, Kerry, Thank you!!☺
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