The Esoteric School Lobby

[Anand Gholap]

(Annie Besant was the head of the Esoteric School and Colonel Olcott was the President of TS.)
Mrs. Annie Besant wrote:
“In the T.S. we have a curious mixture. The Exoteric Society is purely democratic - it is only fair to admit this fully. On the other side we have an Esoteric body which is practically autocratic in its constitution ... The existence of a secret body to rule the outer Society made the constitution of the T.S. a mere farce, for it was at the mercy of the inner … All the differences that arose between the Colonel and myself were on this point; he could not believe that I was serious in saying that I would not use the E.S. against him, but slowly he came to understand it ... The greatest power will always be in the hands of the E.S., and not in the head of the Society ... I know that I exercise a quite unwarrantable power. This is what makes some people say there should not be an E.S.T. … We must recognize the danger and try to neutralize it. At any time during the last fifteen years I could have checkmated the Colonel on any point if I had chosen ...”

I could see frustration of some officers in TS regarding the results in Presidential elections. They were wondering how one person can get elected unopposed for around 30 years. It happened again and again in TS history. Different theories were offered to explain this phenomenon. I think all that mystery is solved by above passages of Annie Besant.
Best
Anand Gholap

[Anand Gholap]

There has been some criticism of person called Mary Underwood. It is unfortunate that she left the group. I hope she joins again and starts contributing. From the language and content of her messages I feel that she was quite honest in stating what she thinks. She had copied ES form regarding Radha's solicitation of support or asking members to leave. This was not a new thing. Preethi had told earlier that she had seen that form. And other member Roberta also reported the same thing from Latin America. So I don't think it is appropriate to attack Mary in her absence.

[Janeth]

>"Does anybody believe that this "Mary Underwood" is a real person?"<---I too find it very unlikely. Thank you very much for your superb comment above, Pablo.

I now understand some Sites acceptance of members by invitation only. Here we have a TC free and open to any and all people and we have individuals registering twice, and who knows really how many other times using false names, pretending to be some one they are not.

Let's be all on guard and watch out for 'snakes' penetrating our Community!!

Dan,
Will it be possible to cross check names on a TS roster? We could always ask that the person posting comments on important issues such as the internal affairs of the Society identifies himself/herself, right?

Things happen for a reason. What lesson(s) are we to learn from this?

Only active TS members should be allowed to participate in discussions such as this one.

[Konstantin Zaitzev]

> Mary Underwood would have received a warning that she would be banned

I think that in this case you are in position to check it. You may check, is Mary Underwood really in the members list. If she is, you may write or call her, did she really wrote all this here. You need not report to us the results of your investigation, but they shall influence your decision about the probable ban.

[Anand Gholap]

Manohar had sent that extremely important message. And now I find that he and his messages both are gone. I think there is required some system to back up messages.
It is very likely that some good members of TS want to tell something important to members of TS, for the benefit of TS members, but they fear administration. This may be the reason why they just give the messages they want to give and later leave the group, in order to avoid identification by the administration.

Anand Gholap

[Anand Gholap]

As I understand, this is a group of students of Theosophy, who are studying Theosophy or hope to study Theosophy in near future. It is not a forum exclusively for members of Adyar TS. So whether a person is member of TS or not is less relevant for this group.

[William Vollrath]

Amen...

[Pablo Sender]

Dear Dan,

I don't think these issues are so interrelated. I thought we were talking about the ES and its relationship to the TS. Now, whatever Radha's actions, they were done through the TS. Whatever Radha's decisions about who stays on the grounds or how they are managed, she make them as TS President. Radha could’ve done everything she did without being head of the ES. That’s what I was saying all along. So, if people want to discuss this matter, let us start a discussion called “Is Radha Burnier misusing her power?” or something like that.
Personally, I have no intentions of defending or attacking Radha, or anyone else. Unless I have a direct knowledge of a situation, I make no judgments. That’s always been my policy because I want to be true to myself, and reduce the amount of mistakes I usually make, even with full knowledge of facts.
That’s the only reason why I say that I don’t feel like engaging in this discussion anymore.

[Anand Gholap]

Dear Dan,
I think, most of the messages so far have been very much relevant and important. It is good that members have contributed so much important information. The purpose of discussion is to get more and more information and feedback, so that we can make Theosophical Society a better organization. Also we are trying to find if ES is giving any undue advantage to anybody in controlling TS. If it is giving such an advantage, we must find how to change it, so that justice will prevail. Also as Mary and Manohar told, we need to find whether resources of TS are used in fair manner. In my opinion, this discussion is going on well.
Best
Anand Gholap

[Janeth]

>"I don't think these issues are so interrelated."---I beg to disagree with you, Pablo, these issues are very much interrelated!!!

I have learned a lot from a couple of, what I call, master piece writings generously posted by one of the many brilliant minds we are fortunate to have on TC. In the interest of those who did not have a chance to read the following postings before they were deleted by Anand and TC moderator (fortunately I saved copy of them for my records since I consider them master piece writings with lots of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom in them), here they are...Hopefully the wisdom in them may help us shape our individual perception of issues we may be having difficulty understanding, digesting, accepting and presenting perhaps a more objective opinion on them. May TS's motto "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH" prevail in a spirit of BROTHERHOOD leaving aside any irrational and selfish thought we may have allowed entrance in our beautiful mind and heart, and instead look ahead into the future with vision and a kind and forgiving attitude!!☺ Lots of LOVE to one and all!!☺

Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Reply by Will Morrow 1 hour ago
Dear Anand,
I'm not sure what prompted this discussion of representative democratic process, but there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the TS organizational structure. The TS does not proport to "represent" the general membership. It does proport to provide for the dissemination and distribution of Theosophical materials. The governance structure would seem to be a result of whatever governance laws and regulations might be required and the musings of an administration with too much time on its hands.
Vincent's comment below is excellent. Janeth poses a question that would appear to be in contradistinction to your fundamental point that membership head count is what counts. And Jim's comment appears to be more of a statement of adulation and adoration than an actual comment regarding organizational due process.
Your statement suggests that head count is what matters. Vincent's comment suggests there is an actual electoral process in the TS governance. Janeth suggests there is an individual ethical and moral character that should be evaluated and considered as a prerequisite to the position of President of the TS. Jim suggests that his love and adoration for the Indian culture and vocabulary is what matters. (BTW - the Eskimo culture may have several words for the color of snow and several hundred words for snow with different qualities. But without any words for "snow removal", I probably wouldn't recommend they make policy regarding transportation in winter in any urban area or airport where snow removal is key to the functioning of local society.)
I suggest this: a number of people feel the call to serve Theosophy by joining with the TS in some administrative or authoritative position. Those people must work together and, as such, must have some sort of guidlines or rules to follow. (Even Maslow's "self actualizing" idea required some commonly understood order of things in order to function effectively and efficiently - as in other than a rabble.) When the immature nature of certain people's personalities takes over and they don't seem to be getting their way, they tend to take their whine to the other parent. This element of human character doesn't seem to be determined by age, nationality, sex, religion, vocabulary or anything else outside of themselves.
My study and practice of Theosophy would probably not be interrupted or enhanced if a "foreigner" was elected as president of the TS. It certainly has not been hindered or enhanced by having a "local" in the position. The TS has a history of people starting their own TS movements because they were not satisfied with whichever TS they were not satisfied with. Many who were not satisfied went with the new TS and then found they weren't satisfied with the new one either and moved on to another or started their own. After all of this, I do not see that the general study and practice of Theosophy been helped or impaired.
In closing, I would like to elevate this topic. The continual highlighting and emphasizing the non-essential, mundane seperatist aspects of the membership within the global TS is a continuing reinforcement that the members of the TS themselves (- ourselves-) are propagating the "Great Heresey" which HPB said we Theosophists will find to be our greatest hurdle to overcome. It is made worse when we Theosophists try to make something born of our own individual ignorance sound intelligent and legitimate. This whole organiziational issue surrounding the offices of the TS is not only not a matter of Theosophy, it isn't really a matter to most Theosophists. Govert Shuller posted an item that is so much more representative of Theosophical work than the immature inner workings of any TS.

Reply by Will Morrow on March 21, 2009 at 2:37pm
Dan,
Thank you for explaining the events of the incident regarding Janeth to me.
I would like to offer a thought here.
It was only a short time ago that this site was inundated with personal opinions that some wrong had been done to members of the TS by the 'authoritarian' approach to a perceived problem used by the executive staff of the TS. It would seem that this same authoritarian approach is more prevalent within the entire TS than we would think. The indication that the idea of this authoritarian approach was catching on and gaining momentum on this site was the discussion regarding the Buffalo, NY incident. When I saw it being "swept under the rug," I felt then that the days of this site being free were coming to an end. And now, this most recent incident (at least that we know of) suggests there is some hidden personal agenda going on at the administrative level of this site to try to establish some ideal "model" which the heathens and infidels "out there" can reference and observe someone's idea of true Theosophy in action.
The fact is that Theosophists and theosophers are those very heathens and infidels which they profess to be separate or different from. When we study, we discuss Universal Brotherhood at great length. When we study seriously, we eventually come to know that the Universal Brotherhood already exists, and we are each working with our personal relationship to it and as an intricate part of it. We begin to work with that great Paramita of Charity and we start to allow for each of our Brothers in Humanity to freely work through their own relationship to that archetypical ideal of Universal Brotherhood.
This type of internet access medium - open chat rooms, forums, blogs, twitters, etc. - plays havoc with authoritarian principles, codes of conduct and censorship. The best sites - those that enjoy the most sophisticated exchange among members - have minimal codes and censorship. As we become a more global community, the cultural differences are certain to cause misunderstandings. What may be considered unthinkable in one cultural frame of mind may not even be recognized as an event worthy of any thought whatsoever in another cultural frame of mind.
Discussions involving religion and Theosophy will continue. People, including Theosophists and theosophers, will continue to find themselves personally offended by one or the other. Isn't that something for each of them to work through rather than having a self-described Theosophical moderator telling one of them to shut up?
In closing, I offer that there is a particular power that is latent in humanity which events like this call on and serve to act as a catalyst for developing those latent tendencies. Things like this should not be swept under the rug. They instead should be recognized for what they are - an opportunity to practice that Third Object - for us to reach deeper within ourselves than we usually do and 'See' deeper into an event than the surface. As you pointed out at one time, many of us on this site do not recognize these latent powers to be something other than "siddhis." It is hard Theosophical work to 'See' beyond the shadow cast by the ideas sometimes.
I say again, thank you, Dan, for all you put into this. I know it takes a lot to keep a site like this going. I consider it a privilege to have it as a resource and hope that I do not inadvertently become a bad guest. Also, as I work on this from my home in my own time, I hope there isn't a dress code coming :)

[Janeth]

>"let us start a discussion called “Is Radha Burnier misusing her power?” or something like that."<---Let us NOT!! Instead let's keep in mind TS president, Dr. Burnier is a human being, like all of us are, with her flaws, as we too have them, who makes mistakes, as we all do too.

Let us be creative in coming up with ideas/ways in which to help her run our beloved Society in a more efficient and cost effective (mind you, I am not only talking about money; I am talking also about mental, emotional, spiritual and physical energy!), manner.

And if Dr. Burnier and her closest associates in their own ignorance -let's keep in mind also that regardless of the level of education or academics or intellectual knowledge a person may have, we all are ignorant in one way or another- choose not to listen, then would you say the right thing for them to do would be to step down and let fresh blood with better all-around energy take over?

If, secret enemy (ambition, selfishness, cruelty, lack of compassion, a my way or the highway attitude, etc.), has taken over, are there provisions clearly stated in our beloved Society's by-laws to do the right thing by Theosophy and TS to remove them from office?

If there are no provisions clearly stated, are you willing to do the right thing by Theosophy and TS and come up with proper ideas/proposals/modifications to be made which will help insure a better and more efficient running of our beloved Society?

Do you think you are capable of putting your own emotional affiliations toward he/she/them and do what's right? Do you?

Are you willing to support those who may courageously come up with ideas/suggestions/proposals on how to accomplish this?

ARE YOU WILLING? ARE YOU CAPABLE?

[William Vollrath]

From my standpoint, the issue isn't whether TS members should engage in focused spiritual growth via the ES, but do they make an effort to reach out and invite participation by all interested parties, or are their activities mostly unannounced and exclusive rather than widely publicized and inclusive. Does the group foster a sense of Special Us or of Brotherly All...

[Anand Gholap]

Preethi's reply to Keith at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/51860
"The reason for my "putting my head on the block" as you call it is that I saw in
Pedro's hand a draft of Mrs Burnier's letter to ES members asking them to leave
the ES if they thought she was incapable of running as head of the TS."