Celebrities, Stockbrokers, and the Lesson They Teach

[Maurice Pedro]

I have noticed some personalities in the news lately and they seem to be the epitome of the human condition. Let me give a few examples.
Britney Speares must have been a young girl who dreamed of fame, wealth, and adoring fans and she succeeded in attracting those things to herself. However her immaturity, drug use and lack of privacy threw her into a despair which manifested itself in bizarre behavior such as cutting off her hair. Ironically this just attracted even more unwanted attention. She chose a life of material wealth and fame and she got it in spades- but not much else.
Paris Hilton has wealth and power beyond most people's imagination and debases herself in pornographic films and is so empty inside it seems as if she feels she will evaporate if she is not seen on a daily basis in the media.
Madoff the stockbroker recently arrested and convicted for conning people out of billions was already fabulously wealthy!
What causes this type of behavior? Desire and sorrow. Desire expressing itself in it's grossest form, as vanity and greed. These people are walking, breathing lessons in life to those who can discern them. If anyone has some insights to give please post em!

[Will Morrow]

Maurice,
I would like to make a couple of general observations about your topic.
Your examples may not be the "epitome of the human condition" as much as they may more likely be the 'epitome of the manipulative effort of the modern media to determine what is considered "news" and should therefore be important to us.'
When you say that "these people are walking breathing lessons in life to those who can discern them" I would like to offer a thought in response. Most of us are not, and will not be, media-worthy celebs. Nor will we be stockbrokers in a position to swindle people on such a large scale (or probably any scale, for that matter). I think the lessons provided to each of us to try to discern in life are much closer at hand - as in the life around us in which we participate and experience day after day. The "trick" we have to overcome is in seeing though our own bias' and the prejudices we each have in such a way that we can, in fact, discern the lessons around us.
In general terms, what did we learn from the Madoff situation? Did we learn that if we, ourselves, have a tendency or affinity for greed, it can (and probably will) be easily accommodated? (Something about "Like attracts Like"?)
Not long ago, a friend asked me to explain the mortgage crisis to him - "in words he could understand" he said. My example went something like this: Suppose he had a home worth $200,000 and went to the bank to borrow the fair loan value of $160,000, but the banker said he would have to borrow $250,000 instead, and with the same terms and conditions. The story goes on, but as he said, of course he would take the additional $$. So now, the people who took the extra mortgage money are categorized as part of the problem and Bernie Madoff's clients are categorized as victims? My point here is to simply identify the subtleties.
One more example of the subtleties you bring up. In a dialogue with the Buddha, he was asked: Master, isn't to desire desirelessness desire just the same? His response was: Yes! The object is to not know desire.
There are some forms of desire that I believe are even more gross than the examples you provided. On the other hand, I believe we each have our baggage to carry and that according to our abilities. The lessons would be for each of us to discern our own greed and sorrows - those which HPB talked about in The Voice of Silence. If we are truely beyond those "gross" levels, we must be even more diligent because, as we evolve, the smaller offenses have a more devastating effect on us that when we were less responsible for them. To paraphrase HPB, Nature is much more forgiving of thre ignorant.

Maurice, I hope this thread carries for awhile as it's a good topic.

Warmest Regards and Kudos for starting it.
Will

[Maurice Pedro]

My point was not to accurately point out the faults of the people mentioned, but to point out that lessons can be learned even in a "forum" as dubious as cable news. Desire will always be a factor in the human "classroom" and I can't imagine living without it, however sometimes we can take it too far and the repercussions seen experienced by some of these characters can be compared to classic mythology, as shown in the examples. People in the popular media regardless of how overblown their importance is in the scheme of things provide a mundane yet valid example of how people can rise and fall if driven too far by material desires. I believe many classic stories play themselves out in the popular media and they provide something to at least think about.
I can imagine Paris Hilton as the modern incarnation of Narcissus, and Madoff as the modern incarnation of King Midas, etc.
I believe we can learn much as we watch the bizarre dramas play out on the accursed television as long as we see it for what it is.
Thanks for responding and keeping me honest, also for the honest criticism, I need to be very careful to express myself more clearly.

[Janeth]

>"If we are truely beyond those "gross" levels, we must be even more diligent because, as we evolve, the smaller offenses have a more devastating effect on us that when we were less responsible for them."<---I am somewhat puzzled by... "..., the smaller offenses have a more devastating effect on us that when we were less responsible for them"...??

Aren't we suppose to handle things better, I mean from a different angle/perspective, as we evolve more? What I mean is..., the more we evolve, the more we understand the cause and effect of events, right? So wouldn't the effect of offenses, whether small or big be less devastating?

>"when we were less responsible for them"<---Will some-one provide samples of this, please?!☺

Any insight on this, from any gentle and generous mind and heart out there, would be much appreciated!!☺

PS. This is, indeed, an interesting forum!!☺ Thanks, Maurice!!☺

[Brian Leslie]

What's the saddest thing isn't the fact that the above examples act like that, it's the horrible fact that uneducated (spiritually) witness thier behavior and emulate it. If one child plays with matches in a tub of gasoline and burns it's one thing, if it's witnessed by the world and copied, then it's a whole new ball game, a downward spiral. If I was to attract one person towards an upward spiral, these people and the debauchery attract thousands each, who's the winner here? Humanity has become so materialistic they are starving, and it pangs my heart to watch it, but at this point in my development I'm powerless to stop it, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever stop trying... My brothers and sisters will be saved, even if it's one at a time, I will try to pull them from the fire at my own risk. I ask that you join me, one in a million is still enough.

[Maurice Pedro]

You make a valid point but you seem to think that if 1000 people go on a downward spiral as you succeed to encourage one person to follow a reciprocal path that the 'other side' has won. But things can't always be reckoned as simply as that. The world has always been changed by individuals not large groups. If you can encourage one person to see the light you are a winner make no mistake.

[Janeth]

>"If you can encourage one person to see the light you are a winner make no mistake."<---I too believe so!!☺ And a big winner it would be-☺...This brings to mind something I heard on a recording of a TS annual conference held in 1993..., 'it is not the quantity but the quality that matters...'-☺

[Janeth]

>"If I was to attract one person towards an upward spiral, these people and the debauchery attract thousands each, who's the winner here?"<---Could it be that the purity and intensity/force that comes with it, even if it is in one out of thousands, may be sufficient to defeat those thousands since their force for the same reason that it is unsound does not hold as tightly as the one generated by pure thoughts and intentions? Therefore, wouldn't that one person be the winner, after all?!!☺

[Janeth]

>"I will try to pull them from the fire at my own risk."<---☺♥-I used to feel this way...☺.., until one day when I understood -the hard way, I must add-☺, an occult maxim..., unless asked for it, do not offer it...This is tricky, though...I believe common sense could be of great assistance...a lot of times, unless being asked for, we should not interfere...

This brings to mind the story of a Master passing by an undesirable place; a woman obviously very unhappy with her particular circumstance; one of the disciples asked the Master: "Why don't you help her, Master?" Because she has not asked to be helped, the Master said!!☺

[Janeth]

>"What causes this type of behavior?"<---Very interesting question, Maurice-☺.

I would say..., perhaps an imbalance between the mind, emotional and spiritual bodies? Regardless of outer circumstances if we do not have a sound balance within, and we do not care to question important things in life, we may go along just because..., without real/lasting meaning, yet, as it's been said, we all have what we have created for ourselves according to our previous thoughts, feelings and actions...

This is, indeed, a very interesting subject, -☺...I share Mr. Morrow's sentiments...
Hopefully others will join in and enlighten us with their ideas/knowledge/perceptions...

[Maurice Pedro]

I believe that we must keep in mind that we are surrounded by billions of souls with different karma, beliefs, and levels of understanding. That is the plan the Creator has for us. We must be careful not to second guess what we see around us just because we don't particularly like it. If things were meant to be different then they would be different.
It's as simple as that, that is if Lao tzu knew what of he spoke.
Maurice

[Jack Donaldson]

I've just now signed up to this forum. I was aware of it for a few months and questioned my ability to be among polite company. Not that I'm coarse or low, I simply have to fight my tendency veer from topic. I mentioned elsewhere one time why our actions should be more along the lines tending toward ethics and moral character. I didn't state it this way, I stated it in the question: why should we worry about stepping upon others, knowing we are living many lifetimes? I received the opposite of what I expected, with the line of thought going toward living with the aim to be receiving the spot-light, stepping upon the toes of others should not be a concern, as everyone receives their opportunity. Then he provided the following link; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHXiZTHoEs&feature=related

This was a bit of a conceptual antagonism for me. Within this particular thread were some thoughts I really lit upon with my focus; by Will Morrow; "If we are truely beyond those "gross" levels, we must be even more diligent because, as we evolve, the smaller offenses have a more devastating effect on us that when we were less responsible for them. To paraphrase HPB, Nature is much more forgiving of the ignorant."

[Kenneth John Kiser]

Rather not desire & sorrow for in it's place anything will suffice for it is the lack of spiritual connection
more profound than oneself. A daily practice reinforcing the ideals set forth in this relationship. It is
as if these people are empty vessels sailing along anywhere the wind blows.