ARE WE STUCK ON THE WRONG DIRECTION?

[Jack Donaldson]

I have been seeing the question, 'what is truth' arising as topic very often. Here as elsewhere. Those knowledgeable concerning the Descending Arc, and the Ascending Arc according to Theosophy, might help me on this. When we are upon the descending arc, we are said to be on the approach toward perfecting matter, not only reaching the destination of the most densely physical we will get, but experiencing along the way, as much differentiation as we might bring to be along the way.

So upon reaching this point, and reversing this direction to begin the ascent, the opposite of manifesting increasing differentiation. If the Ascending Arc is in-folding of substance, or less and less differentiation of substance, and un-folding of force, or more and more expression of force (force and substance are both expressions of Life, Life is the expression of Consciousness/es), am I incorrect in assuming agreement increases between growing numbers of human individuals?

[Jack Donaldson]

Perhaps we reach a new Consciousness without studying the Loka's/Tala's and the devas. Leave mental gymnastics for a while. Peace-out.

[michaelcarlo]

On the descending arc your goal was to individualize and become Human. Congratulations.

[Jack Donaldson]

That's nice, but I'm more interested in the idea this is a process concluded. On the ascending arc, differentiation is expressed as an in-folding process, where fewer number and variety of the material and lower life expression are manifest. Spiritual un-folding is more pronounced. Now, among the Octaves, one of which we happen to placed among, we have the Seven Worlds. Upon each, a Globe D exists, and Globe A at the top. In between, is the Fourth, I think it is Logos. Our Globe D is sub-Logos, while Globe A would also be sub-Logos, but only in relation to the Fourth World above it. This latter would be in an Octave above us. Every Fourth receives an orthogonal beam, a right angled Ray, or another term would be to say perpendicular to the Up/Down of the Octaves. So from the latter, it comes to me as considered more feminine, while the former, or every fourth realm, world, heaven, hell, plane, however you might describe them, are the masculine.

However, if you haven't really found this particular aspect of study within Theosophy interesting enough to possess a more or less degree of comprehension, you can make another brief smart alleck sounding comment again. Humans are able to be on both sides, the Elementals and Devas are not. I had an intense pain lasting for hours each time it occurred, I reached a point where I thought about nothing, toward an end where I no longer experienced the pain. It didn't work, it only placed me where I was inappropriate for expression. I never got the migraines anymore. Seems strange to me for a ten year old to be getting migraines in the first place. They suddenly were a part of my life occurring regularly. Break on through, break on through...

[michaelcarlo]

Concluded? there's no beginning, thus no end. Lets reduce it to it's lowest common denominator, that we of the 4th Kingdom can relate. Involution and Evolution are one of the functions of the Great Law that is forever active, both in the Great and the small. So now you must ask yourself, where can I observe this Great Law that is forever in action? One example is quite simple and has been right under your nose. Your respiration! You breath in (involution),transmute, breath out (evolution) transform, etc. etc...

[Jack Donaldson]

Concluded? there's no beginning, thus no end. Lets reduce it to it's lowest common denominator... Your respiration! You breath in (involution),transmute, breath out (evolution) transform, etc. etc...

michaelcarlo, in Theosophy there are many percieved endings, and beginnings. Perhaps this accounts for the frequency of mention made in regard to the terms; periodical and cyclical. I appreciate your insight concerning the In and Out breaths. Transmute during in-breath, and transform during out-breath. Cool.

[Konstantin Zaitzev]

We as individuals are on ascending arc long ago but the life of elemental kingdoms in us, which makes up the "matter" of our astral and mental bodies are still on the descending arc, what makes our mind and emotions strive to the material. So it depends rather on our individual identification with mind/desires or our higher self, will the agreement between humans grow.

[Jack Donaldson]

Thanks Konstantin, this added much to my understanding. On the descending arc, you indicate the astral and mental bodies are the rule. This must be the basis for stating globes of the descending arc have Loka attributes and characteristics. Just so as well, for the ascending arc with elemental attributes and characteristics. Much to be considered exists in this topic. Loka's upon the ascending arc possess the elemental principle, and this is within Loka's. I would imagine it this way; if you scoop snow from the ground with you hand, tightly clutching this snow would result in a very dense snow-ball. I think ascending up the Loka's expresses increasingly less clutching or gripping tightly, of the elemental principle.

The process of releasing intense focus upon substance, would point to diminishing selfishness. This might be where agreement grows. It is the manner in we which express any growing disinterest in the desires of Mahamaya. Do it tactfully, and illustrate the priceless or unequalled quantitative value of becoming a spiritual being of a much vaser realm. I'm basing this upon the many stories and myths indicating 'nemesis quality will' of the mind of manas. this latter is an occasional necessity for the higher manas as it is. Another thing is Tsung tsu wrote, "never fight a battle you can't win". One would require the ability and knowledge prior to battling the mana of kama.

[Nabil Naser]

There is no Ascending without descending, and vice verse
The moment decides what is ascending "from our perspective", and what could be descending.
The whole universe is expanding and thus creating more complex realities. Yet from our perspective, all this is irrelevant, because we do know know which way is up.

First we must know what we are, then we can ask where we are?

[Jack Donaldson]

Nabil; There is no Ascending without descending, and vice verse
The moment decides what is ascending "from our perspective", and what could be descending.
The whole universe is expanding and thus creating more complex realities. Yet from our perspective, all this is irrelevant, because we do know know which way is up.>>

If you were inclined to expand a bit upon the above, I'd appreciate it. I'm 50 terabytes of cells, and 3 gigabytes of DNA pairs. This physical form is a hologram, every hologram is a reflection of something more real. I have an electro/chem neural net, an electrical neural net, the sheath covering muscle down to the ligaments, and having access to every cell, is of a semi-conductor quality substance, which indicates computer properties of processing, dissemination of data and memory logs maintained within the same fields which input and receive through this hologram, as well as all the various levels of fields connected to everything in the Universe.

[Nabil Naser]

Before I can expand on anything, I must correct my mistakes.

What I wrote before was "because we do know know which way is up.>>"

It is missing a very important word, It actually reads "because we do not know which way is up.>>"

Perhaps this can be an answer

[Jack Donaldson]

It is missing a very important word, It actually reads "because we do not know which way is up.>>"

ha! I didn't notice your typo where you wrote know know, instead of not know. That means I automatically interpreted what you meant. That's interesting. I knew you meant, 'because we do not know which way is up' but I wasn't consciously aware that I was reading your statement accurately. I didn't see 'know know', only 'not know'. This can be taken further, because conversely, It is possible that I might read an accurate statement, but interpret it falsely

[Nabil Naser]

Isn't that something. Even as I was correcting my mistake, I though; they probably know what I mean, and that its was just a mistake.
This says a lot more about us than many books can explain.